Video: Pre-Trib Position Satanic


Read all of Matthew 24, then watch this video. This is not about fear, it is about preparing for conducting the church while under persecution. Please watch.

After doing the study of the teachings of Christ Jesus in Luke, Mark, and Matthew (false teaching if someone tells you that Matthew is ONLY for the Jews) is the best way to interpret the book of Revelation. I have tried to show how scriptures of a pre-trib teaching are taken out of context, twisted, and used to prove an unbiblical position - similar to the Devil in the wilderness tradition.

Also, like many, I grew up on a Scoffield Bible, but Scoffield was more of a con-man than a theologian. Don't take my word for it, look it up yourself. It was Scoffield and Darby that pushed this position. Darby even left scriptures out of his translation!

I also challenge "Pre-tribbers" to weigh in on direct scriptural references on that position, not quoting obscure early Christian teaching nor Scoffield commentary.

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Marketplace Minister's picture
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It is the video that is 113 minutes long. Why challenge Pre-Tribulation? I've change on this point, regarding apathy, I know there are pre-Tribbers out there who follow the Lord Jesus Christ, but I've also seen that many more who take little responsibility for decisions made in here & now, because they think Jesus could come claim them before we see the results of stock piles of ammo, and homosexuality under this presidency running amuck, and Muslim and Communists cells forming in this country. It is likely more about irresponsibility than apathy.

Lee
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They always do that...

Those who don't rightly divide the word almost without exception claim Matt. 24 is proof against the rapture. It isn't. They fail to examine the great many differences between the 2nd coming which isn't sudden, and the rapture, which is. The other differences you all could probably list faster than a speeding bullet, so I won't.

Matt. 24 is about the second coming—written to Jews, not Christians, who will live during the Time of Jacob's Trouble (Tribulation). The book of Matthew is still Old Testament...yes, the New Testament is a collection of books that begins with Matthew, but until Jesus died, the Old Testament law was still in force and it was in effect when Jesus said the words of Matt. 24. Those who toss out flimsy arguments as above only flaunt their own ignorance of Scripture. The mystery of the rapture isn't revealed until Paul writes about it much later. Progressive revelation of Scripture is an exciting unfolding of God's non-linear proclamation of mankind's destiny. Without a dispensational understanding, people like the guy above flounder in a sea of confusion. And you know what? People like that won't understand truth even when you sit them down and explain it using the Bible. They don't want to believe the rapture. They'll either be very surprised in a twinkling of an eye, or they'll miss it altogether. God help them.

Me? I'm looking for Jesus Christ, not the Antichrist. Maranatha!

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By the way, did you see the video?

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Thanks John! Pre-Wrath not pre-Trib. Endure Christians and pray for revival of believers following the scripture. Go to top posts last 30-days as a Rap-Con Exclusive over 14,000 readers. Wiring John:

"The rapture likely takes place somewhere around Rev. 6:14-15. Chapter 7 describes the 144,000 we talked about above being marked and preserved as God's first fruits', a remnant of Israel. Then wrath begins at Rev. 8:7."

I caution reading commentary on Rapture Ready, but their articles are good.

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Each book of the Bible is written under the inspiration of God, the Holy Spirit. Yes, each Gospel was penned after the resurrection of Christ Jesus, and yes, each book was written with a different audience in mind, but to say Matthew was written ONLY for the Jews is like saying Luke was written ONLY for Theophilos! Matthew is a synoptic Gospel, part of the New Testament canon, and to think otherwise shows lack of understanding of scripture.

There are lots of false teachings out there; unless grounded and properly handling the Word of Truth, you will be susceptible to every wind of doctrine, so all should take care on interpreting scripture. Mature believers should challenge false teaching with scripture whenever possible.

Pray that revival means that weaker believers will turn to scripture as tge authoritative Word of God and turn away from just the teachings of men.

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So words of our Lord were of no effect on us, because they were said before He resurrected? Who ever taught that has no understanding of the Diety of Christ, nor grounding in the authority of ALL scripture. Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law. In fact, Von Deen, he made the law even tougher, so that no one could completely obey it except Christ Jesus, who from birth is Himself God.

I would say your opinion of scriptural interpretation should be reviewed. Interpretation without context, witness of the other books of scripture, (i.e., apostles, prophets, poets, historians and leaders in the Bible) understanding of history, nor the basis of rationally laying out the points of scripture is very shaky ground indeed!

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Lee wrote that, MM; not

Lee wrote that, MM; not Vondean.

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Lee wrote that, MM; not

Lee wrote that, MM; not Vondean.

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Sorry, that was addressed to

Sorry, that was addressed to Lee about flimsy.

Lee
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And not just apathy, L&F

It also robs believers of their rewards...there is a crown for those who love his appearing; we purify ourselves with the blessed hope; are extremely motivated to witness for Jesus Christ as the days are short; our faith is strengthened knowing God has NEVER punished those who love him...I could go on but it's time to scoot for now...

Be encouraged, brothers and sisters! We're going home SOON!!!

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I'm confused, are you talking

I'm confused, are you talking to me or to MM?

Lee
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Ooops

I'm so sorry; forgive me—guess I wasn't fully awake this morning...I intended to refer to MM's comments.

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Wow, no one said God punishes us

These things i have spoken to you that you may have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. John 16:33

Christians who suffer are not really Christian? Were Christians who faced lions punished by God? No! Did He allow Satan to buffet them, test their faith, stand against the devil to the cost of their lives? Are not people suffering in this manner all over the world?

I look forward, Lee, to your scriptural references that directly point out that the rapture will happen before the tribulation.

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MM, I think you are mixing up

MM, I think you are mixing up tribulation with "great tribulation" God never said things would be easy in this world in fact he told us many times we would have tribulation but that is different from the great tribulation. I believe this confusion comes from the different translations. The word tribulation is only found 1 time in the NIV (Revelation 7:14 NIV) while it is found 25 times in the KJV. This makes it hard to do a word study if it's only listed 1 time. It also makes it hard to link parallel verses together. False doctrine and misunderstandings almost always rise from the use of other translations. Why do you think the JW's and Mormons and Catholics have their own translations?

John 16:33 (KJV)
John 16:33 (NIV)

Acts 14:22 (KJV)
Acts 14:22 (NIV)

Romans 5:3 (KJV)
Romans 5:3 (NIV)

2 Corinthians 1:4 (KJV)
2 Corinthians 1:4 (NIV)

1 Thessalonians 3:4 (KJV)
1 Thessalonians 3:4 (NIV)

Romans 8:35 (KJV)
Romans 8:35 (NIV)

Another interesting point, the only "church" that goes through "great tribulation" is Jezebel the Harlot church but the NIV removed "great tribulation"

Revelation 2:20 (KJV) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Revelation 2:20 (NIV) Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel,(A) who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.(B) 21 I have given her time(C) to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.(D) 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery(E) with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.

Why did the NIV take out great tribulation?

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Btw, I hate the NIV, why would you bring that up?

Ok, lets say I'm confused. Then where are the scriptures directly supporting the pre-trib position?

The 7 Churches were actual churches, you know that, right? They speak to our spiritual condition, individually and collectively, and what "type" of church (individual) is pleasing to the Lord, and vice versa.

Believe it or not, I have seen the Jezabel church, it is humanistic churches, like the United Methodist (although ther are a remnant who fights that liberalism) and the United Church of Christ and the Unitarians. These liberals deny the Lordship of the Bodily Resurrected Jesus Christ, and teach immorality as part of grace! What horrendous hypocrisy! I've heard a leader of a Christian university say that Obama is evangelical, but separates "politics" from religion, therefore he saw nothing inconsistent with abortion, homosexuality, or the apostasy of the UCC.

In fact, Revelation 3:19 is rather interesting.

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I used the NIV as an example

I used the NIV as an example for where we get our differences in doctrine. I am not saying that's what you use but it's a pretty popular version and I have in the past seen many differences in doctrine result from the different translations. I did not watch all of the video you posted because I have watched Steven Anderson's video's in the past and know what he says about the rapture. He first came to my attention a few years ago when he tried to video tape himself going through a check point here in AZ. He refused to say he was a citizen and became hostile and was subsequently detained for a short while. He then sued and won his case for ? I think wrongful arrest. I do not agree with his theology or his attitude but that's beside the point. I have seen the Jezebel spirit at work in churches too and yes I know they were both literal churches and a picture of spiritual state of churches. My point was that the Jezebel church goes through the Great Tribulation. Please see my other post on your forum about this subject.

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I was told the books are the difference between mans way(NIV) and God's way(KJV). Only 3 times does the bible mention "great tribulation" in KJV and none of those references call it "The Great Tribulation." NIV has corrupted the word and does not have a very cohesive translation.

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I would agree with that, but that is not the only "Church" that will have to endure before the first trumpet in Revelation 7. All of us will endure what Jesus clearly teaches in three gospels. Your opinion about challenging a checkpoint within the boundaries of the United States is so noted, however, it may become more of an issue as this country turns it's back on it's ties to scriptural foundations of the constitution. Would you not agree that our president is flagrantly ignoring the constitution? And what of the "church" that for so long has tolerated gay lifestyles, aborting ( murdering) 3,000 babies A DAY, failing to follow the Great Commission, idly standing by while prayer is ripped from our schools, tolerating Jim Crow laws ... So tell me your interpretation of the Jezebel church?

Personally, I admire any patriot that stands up for the God-given right for freedom.

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Prosperity Gospel is not biblical. Show me in scripture where it says God NEVER disciplines us for failing to do what He commands!

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The true doctrine of satan

The true doctrine of satan are those who are trying to steal your joy and causing you to doubt. Read my post about the rapture and you will clearly see the truth. We have a loving heavenly Father who has promised the Christian the blessed hope. I stand on God's promises. This post here also doesn't not belong in the signs in the news column. Lee I am encouraged I know it won't be long now! God bless.

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Scripture reference?

This is not to say there is no gathering. Oh yes, we will be caught up in an instant, and I don't want to be called to be tortured because I am a believer, but to do that my prayer is that I would be faithful under fire.

I am glad that even among pre-trib believers, that there is an urgency to save the lost, and to ground believers in the scripture.

We all long to see the Lord, for we love Him more than anything. Yes, Maranatha. (1 Corinthians 16:22)

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Joy isn't stolen by solid

Joy isn't stolen by solid biblical teaching. Ignoring God's Word and using it to pre-text a false doctrine is devisive and demonic.

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totally agree Vondean.

totally agree Vondean.

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Pre Trib

doesnt promote apathy. Apathy promotes apathy. Satan is the cradle rocker, brother, not pre-tribbers.
A true Christian who is pre-trib is most certainly not sitting back saying oh well. we dont need to worry about anything anymore we're outta here. We KNOW we're outta here but we also know that there is plenty of work for the harvest is ripe, the fields are full and heavy and the night is approaching when there will be no more harvesting. We work now at a feverish pace but all things are in God's time. Even our work is under His Hand. He says go to those whom He says go and stay to those whom He says stay. He sends one where others would never tread and one where many wish to go. He knows men's hearts are deceitfully wicked. He knows our thoughts and innermost workings. He most certainly wants us to be about His business but because we love Him, because we know the hour and that the time for reaping is almost over.
false teachings that endorse no hurry no worry is a lie that is to lull those lukewarm (at best) into a deeper sleep. We cant wake everyone, MM. Even if we apply ourselves every moment of every day with no food or sleep or personal care... We can only do so much. The Pre Trib is not a license to loaf. It is a call to arms, a goad in our sides to act, an imperative delivered with urgency and a call from our Father to move as quickly as we can in the way HE wants us to move. If God calls you to stand on a soapbox and scream that the end draweth near then you better go get your box, If the Lord God calls you to be a witness by living Godly, or speaking to someone even ONE then so be it... To each is a particular calling. The body is not made up of one type or another. Some people are to be great, some small, some moderate but all important. God decides who what when and where. We just follow it.
Many would take offense at a rounding condemnation of Pre Tribs. I do not. I understand you have your viewpoint and belief but so are we pretribbers. We all may not agree on when the rapture happens on the time line. What we DO all agree on is that we are eager for His return. Pre-Tribs love and await in anticipation of the Lord's appearing. i LONG for it with my entire soul. I long to see Him... and I know one day- I will.

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Sister, good are your words

It is about fighting the good fight, but I've seen so many posts from people who shed all responsibility for the Kingdom, even while it is at hand. I hope that this video is wrong. What a sad commentary it will be as the church in America is underground and it is said, wish we'd been ready and more prepared.

I simply brought up avideo that these teachers brought up.

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Well, I'll add my two

Well, I'll add my two cents....the signs of the soon coming Rapture certainly has had the opposite affect on me. I find myself trying to find ways to work Christ in wherever I can when talking to everyone. I feel time is quickly running out and it has lit a fire in me. How can this not be so with most true Christians? If we are on a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean, would you not reach your hand out to help those floundering in the sea, so close to drowning?

I have seen the opposite effect...Christians around the internet and those who see the truth are proclaiming it everywhere to non believers. So the idea of apathy seems...well, weeeeaaaak.

And really , only one thing has to be said to prove the pre-Trib rapture. We all know the Bible verses that proclaim the Rapture. From Rapture Ready:

ver and over in Scripture we are told to watch for the appearing of the Lord. We are told “to be ready” (Matt. 24:44), “to be on the alert” (Matt. 24:42), “to be dressed in readiness” (Luke 12:35), and to “keep your lamps alight” (Luke 12:35). The clear force of these persis­tent warnings is that Jesus can appear at any moment.

Only the pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture allows for the imminence of the Lord’s appearing for His Church. When the Rapture is placed at any other point in time, the imminence of the Lord’s appearing is destroyed because other prophetic events must happen first.

The Word promises over and over that the Church will be delivered from God’s wrath. Romans 5:9 says that “we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him [Je­sus].” 1 Thessalonians 1:10 states that we are waiting “for His Son from heaven . . . who will deliver us from the wrath to come.” The promise is repeated in 1 Thes­salon­ians 5:9 - “God has not destined us for wrath, but for ob­taining salva­tion through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Deliverance

Some argue that God could supernaturally protect the Church during the Tribulation. Yes, He could. In fact, He promises to do just that for the 144,000 Jews who will be sealed as bond-servants at the beginning of the Tribulation (Rev. 7:1-8).

But God’s promise to the Church during the Tribulation is not one of protection but one of deliverance. Jesus said we would “escape” the horrors of the Tribulation (Luke 21:3­6). Paul says Jesus is coming to “deliver” us from God’s wrath (1 Thess. 1:10).

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/reagan/dr20.html

If you say that the Rapture is in the middle or after the Tribulation, you are saying that the Bible was wrong when it says that it is an imminent event.

So it's safe to say, the Rapture is definitely pre-Trib. If anything, I think the devil will use this kind of nonsense to depress believers into falling away and fallinto despair. One of the biggest signs of the end times is all of the nonsense people will believe...Bible predicted it, and man, is it ever true.

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Thanks JH, I will carefully

Thanks JH, I will carefully meditate on your scripture and get back to it When you get a chance, watch the video. It is quite well done, a bit bold, but well presented. I always appreciate Bible over Opinion.

God bless you brother or sister.

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Btw loved your article on the Obama fly

Laughed, I thought I'd cry! X-)) I've been meaning to tell you that.

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Sorry for the delayed response, I got up early this morning on a very busy work week to address comments and questions. Thank you for your patience.

At first I was shocked that people actually questioned my salvation over the position of whether or not Christians will be “gathered up” before the time of tribulation, or after.

Thinking about that though, I think those writers, like JH, are really saying that it affects your view of who God reveals Himself to be. So, rather than be offended, I choose to reduce it down to this:

Mid-Tribulation Rapture: God is a loving God, who is both the Rewarder of His People, and is the Refiner who allows them to experience suffering, so that our faith is proved or genuine. (I will bring in this scriptural context, tonight.)

Pre-Tribulation Rapture: God is a loving God and would never allow His People to experience His Wrath, nor allow them to suffer. God only rewards Christians. ( JH cites Romans 5:9; Luke 21:6 I Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9.)

My reply to your scripture references are based on the evidence of scriptural context

Romans 5:9 in immediate context, is referring to the “wrath of God,” as being Hell, the Lake of Fire, (Revelation 20:10 and 21:8) due to the fact that He is writing to Christians, that His death saves us from the Final Judgment, which is reserved for those who reject Jesus Christ. See the end of Romans 5:10 and Romans 5:11. This is why it is not inconsistent with the scripture earlier in that chapter, Romans 5:3-5, which again points that suffering, is a result of a loving God, who wants His People to experience hope in this wicked world. (See also John 14:17-19, for a context of the prayer of Jesus)

I Thessalonians 1:10, is similar in interpretation to the above, in that He is praising the the church of Thessalonica for their standing against the worship of idols, (1 Thessalonians 1:6 and I Thessalonians 1:9) which in “their faith toward God” to the salvation of their souls from Hell, the wrath of God. (Colossians 3:6, Ephesians 2:3-7)

I Thessalonian 5:9, is in the context of I Thessalonians 5:1-11, He is calling Christians, to be sober (as we’ve seen before, to be holy) as we are and not destined for the wrath of God (1 Thessalonians 5:9) but rather the “hope of salvation” (verse 8) and based on that, we will endure through the times and epochs as sons of light and of the day. (I Thessalonians 5:1-5)

This is why it is written, that we are to encourage one another, those of the household of faith, that during the times of tribulation; for we will not be deceived, but will fix our hope on our eternal salvation. (I Thessalonians 5:11, Matthew 24:24 – I will later address “the elect” for Lee and others who are confused on this matter, but here it says, “if possible,”)

Your reference to Romans 5:9, I Thessalonians passages are evidently out of context and refers to eternal wrath instead.

Luke 21:6, even within the verse, your claim that His “promise of escape” isn’t even there! He says, “praying that you MAY have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place and to stand before the Son of Man.” Why would He say that? Look at Luke 21:25-27, the sign in the sun, moon, stars, roaring of sea and waves, expectation of the things which are coming (prophesy) upon the world…(v. 27) THEN they (it could be our generation) will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud…”

Your reference to Luke 21:6 is evidently not correctly cited and is not considering the way the passage in context is clearly written.

2 Peter 2:9, which is often quoted out of context for those who claim that Christians are not to endure temptation, but He is rather addressing the issue of false prophets and teachers, (2 Peter 2:1-3) who do not follow the Scripture, which leads them to sensuality and maligned truth. In 2 Peter 2:12-22, God teaches us that such false prophets are vile and disgusting.

However, what is missed by teachers who pull scripture out of context (although I don’t think they are intentional false teachers, but out of ignorance, teach falsely, 2 Peter 3:16) is that 2 Peter was written as an appendix to the first epistle. (2 Peter 3:1) This epistle was written so that Christians would continue to be “partakers of the divine nature.” (2 Peter 1:4 and 2 Peter 1:10)

Clearly, in 1 Peter, He is not saying that Christians will not endure trials nor suffering for the sake of Christ Jesus. (1 Peter 1:5-7, regarding our salvation unto heaven and our suffering, if God so ordains it necessary, to refine our faith. I believe Peter experienced this refining in the denial of association with Jesus (John 18:27) and in his hypocrisy addressed by Paul. (Galatians 2:11, here is irony, in that Paul used Peter’s Greek name, for his hypocrisy) Peter’s epistles I love, JH, because they are written by someone who understands his own short-comings and meets them out to encourage we believers not to follow the same path. God does not contradict Himself in two epistles, for what is clearly written by the hand of God is that Christians WILL be joined in suffering in the flesh to withstand the temptation to sin. (2 Peter 4:1-2) So, the “temptation rescue,” referred in 2 Peter 2:9 is not tribulation in the since of any dispensation, but is talking about our continuous battle for holiness in ourselves. It is not unlike Paul’s teaching in I Corinthians 10:13, whereas “escape” could be equated with “rescue.”

Your reference to 2 Peter 2:9 is evidently out of context, as temptation is not to be confused with a great tribulation.

-----------------------------------------------------

As it is time for me to go to work (so sorry, but gotta pay those bills!) I will, by God’s grace, address the biblical position of the gathering up of Christians, ,after a great tribulation, byaddressing the words of men versus the Word of God, meant for Christian holiness.

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Why Judge anyone Brother???

That the rapture is going to happen is certain. Its timing is uncertain. Why judge each other and prove the other wrong??? If God wants us to go through a tribulation who can stop it?? And if not, who can make us go through it??? Let him decide. What is now required is to hold strong to our faith in Yeshua and be prepared. Pre or post trib does not change the fact that Yeshua is coming back. He has promised that he will never forsake us and his grace is sufficient for me!! Amen!!

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Not sure who that is directed

Not sure who that is directed to? If me, all I can say is....I keep seeing things all over the internet telling Christians that their beliefs are from the devil....that the pre-Trib rapture is devil inspired....I even read one the other day that said Jesus himself was the devil and we were all deceived. Where does it end? It is so obvious that this stuff is devil inspired because Christ is coming soon.

There is simply no way to validate a post trib, or even mid trib view. I honestly think some people are not sure of their faith, and so they think that if they see the world blow up in nuclear chaos, THEN they can finally know for sure. They are terrified that one day they will wake up to a news story about millions missing and so they think, where do these people get off? How do they KNOW?

well, the Bible says so. Someone, anyone, please explain to me how the Rapture can be imminent, and at the same time, we have to see the Tribulation. It can't be, it's not possible. If the Rapture is imminent, that means we are looking up. If we have to see the Tribulation, it is NOT an imminent event, so we may as well all stop watching for Christ and change this sites name to Trib Con, and we can wait for the nukes to start dropping.

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