Lisa Ling Asks: Is It Possible to Be Both Gay and Christian?


It's a conversation that has never gone away, but on Tuesday night, journalist Lisa Ling catapulted the debate on Christianity and homosexuality back into the spotlight. The longtime television journalist, whose new series is on OWN (Oprah Winfrey Network), sought to find answers to a question that continues to be asked today: Is it possible to be gay and Christian at the same time?
For 17 students at The Naming Project's summer camp, it is.

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Graftedgentile's picture
Graftedgentile's analysis:
The Day of judgment for the people that lead others into the pit of hell is going to be unimaginable. My understanding of hell is , there are many differing level's of torment and punishment.....Pray for those who are being mislead by the children of Satan. Romans1:32

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pookaloo2005
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if this is not a sign of the

if this is not a sign of the times we live, i don't know what is... i personally believe that homosexuality is a demonic spirit tormenting and possesing these individuals. God Almighty is all powerful..i remember the church i attended as a child where a woman came to church and God saved her, deilvered her, she came in the church doors looking like a man... but God changed her life!!!!! She is now married and had 2 children!! God can heal anyone and set anyone free...you have to let go and let God!! He won't force you to be delivered you have to want to be set free!!!

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fullquiverdad
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Amen

Amen Pookaloo,

The power of the Blood is enough to deliver even the most vile of man from their affliction...but first we have to want to be delivered. It has to be of our own free will.

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tracy b.
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I agree

I think the same, pookaloo. Demonic spirit/s. Same inflections in voice, same mannerisms even.

I actually had a run-in re: this topic last weekend with a man who does a service for me every month. I pray before I see him each time for God's light to shine through me. He is currently abstaining from the physical "activities" of that lifestyle and is attending a church (although I suspect it's emergent), but he doesn't yet believe that being a homosexual is a choice, and a wrong one. His mother confronted him recently re: his lifestyle and the fact that he believes he was born that way. She told him that was not true, and begged him to turn away from the lifestyle or he would not join her in heaven, which would break her heart.

He was left devastated and felt rejected and completely betrayed. I prayed for God to guide my tongue the whole time I was listening; didn't want to say, or not say, anything out of His will. This man was absolutely crushed and it was a delicate situation. He never asked me my belief on the subject, although he knows I'm a Christian, so I felt I could only address the facts he presented to me (also prayed that if God wanted me to go further, He'd open the door and have him ask me my opinion).

After listening, I did tell him to try looking at this in a different light. That his mother, in her belief, was very courageous in saying what she did to him. She knew she could've lost him completely in her life but she put it on the line because she loved him so much. That to not do so in her eyes was the betrayal. She wanted him to be with her in eternity with Jesus, bottom-line, and she risked losing him to tell him so. I told him to go speak with her again, not to let time and silence build up. He hugged me as I was leaving.

Please pray for him to have eyes to see, ears to hear; and a heart ready to repent completely and receive Jesus. I think that some part of him knows the Truth because he is abstaining in the physical and in relationships as a whole. (By the way, he's a preacher's kid. They are attacked especially.) He told me he loved Jesus and that He was trying to listen for the Holy Spirit's guidance in his life. Again, please pray for him to hear the message that is obviously being given. And pray for me next time I see him. God may have me step out more.

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Brian from Oz
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Homosexual/Christian

To those who say they are both homosexual and Christian I earnestly suggest you go to the Bible for its teachings on the matter.

As a student of Scripture, but not homosexual, I can say dogmatically that God is against homosexuality just as he is against all sexual sins, for they are destructive of the nuclear family. From this it can be easily deduced that he did not make you homosexual - he does not contradict himself (in the same vein, nor does he make us fornicators or adulterers, we do it ourselves).

Although I am not a homosexual I am a human being and do have some understanding of the desires of the flesh, and can therefore say with equal conviction that everything that gratifies the desires of our flesh (and our mind) can become addictive, sex is no different.

My observation of life has been that addictions are casually entered into but fearfully difficult to break.

Regarding your Christianity:
If you have believed in Jesus of Nazareth as your Saviour and been 'born again', the Spirit of God dwells in you, you are a child of God so take your addiction to the Father in faithful and persistent prayer.

CounselingWithX
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Advise me to read my Bible?

Of the negative or critical e-mails I receive from critics, I'd estimate 90% of them advise me to read my Bible. Specifically, I am urged to read at least one or all of the six passages we as GLBT Christians know as the "clobber passages". These are verses, we're told, where God condemns homosexuality in no uncertain terms.

As I inform those letter writers, I have read my Bible, and I've paid close attention to those "clobber passages." So have many Bible scholars. We all agree that nowhere in the Bible are same-sex committed and loving relationships condemned. It's just not there. Instead, the Bible holds much joy, comfort and love for GLBT Christians willing to wade into its pages and hear the loving voice of God.

We've explored the 6 "clobber passages" and several other verses used as "prooftexts" of homosexuality's condemnation.

Before we begin we must clarify the concept of "prooftexts" or isogesis. To defend their assertion that God condemns homosexuals, people always use small passages from the Bible to prove their point. Using the Bible in this manner is destructive. Instead of "exegesis" which involves examining the history of scripture to find out what it means and how it applies to us, "eisegesis" approaches scripture with a preconceived idea of what you will find there. It is abuse of scripture.

In eisegesis you search the Book until you find a passage you think applies and use it as your "proof" that God backs you up. You isolate that phrase or passage, take it out of context and improperly use it to back up your argument. It's like a friend taking a sentence or phrase out of a letter you wrote and using it to represent what you believe as a whole. It's easy to be taken out of context. You wouldn't want your views represented that way, but that's how the ideas and beliefs of the Bible's authors are presented everyday!

It is my sincere hope that GLBT Christians and our critics alike will approach this material with open hearts and minds. Not everyone will come away convinced, but I've discovered it takes time to unlearn all the misinterpretations of scripture we've been taught through the years. I invite you to sit with this information, pray and meditate on it, and let God speak to your heart. I hope that when your journey is complete you'll see God's word with new eyes and realize GLBT Christians are welcomed in Jesus' one word, "Whosoever."

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Brian from Oz
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"We all agree that nowhere in

"We all agree that nowhere in the Bible are same-sex committed and loving relationships condemned. It's just not there. Instead, the Bible holds much joy, comfort and love for GLBT Christians willing to wade into its pages and hear the loving voice of God ".

This is a distortion so great it must be called a lie.

You obviously believe the Bible condemns homosexuality or you would not use the phrase 'clobber passages'. The passages must have a strong negative message against homosexuality for you to use such a phrase.

A simple reading of Romans Chapter one is sufficient to establish that this is the case and being so it is logic, not eisegesis or even exegesis that dictates that "same-sex committed and loving relationships" are condemned. A same-sex relationship, whether it is committed and loving or just incestuous is still a series of homosexual acts - and therefore condemned.

The world church as against true Christianity makes great use of the words love loving etc., and convinces itself that love overrides all other of the Divine attributes. But it is the justice of God that dictates death as being the wages of sin, with Christ Jesus fulfilling that decree and Gods immeasurable love, in his substitutionary death on the cross.

Your abuse of scripture would make your relationship to the Author of Scripture questionable and again I would sincerely exhort you to go the Scriptures and learn what it is to be Christian.

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Brian from Oz
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The trouble with haste. Not

The trouble with haste.

Not INCESTUOUS but LICENTIOUS

CounselingWithX
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Romans? Hmm that's not how I see it...

Romans 1:26 and 27, at first glance, appears to condemn gay and lesbian activity. Paul criticizes sexual activity which is against a person's nature or disposition. But in Greek society of the time, homosexuality and bisexuality was regarded as a natural activity for some people. Thus Paul might have been criticizing heterosexuals who were engaged in homosexual activities against their nature. He might not be referring to homosexuals or bisexuals at all.

The verses preceding 26 might indicate that he was referring to sexual acts associated with idol worship. The verse is too vague to be interpreted as a blanket prohibition of all same-sex activities.

This passage has been used by some Christians to make an issue over how "unrighteous" and sinful homosexuals are. In fact, it has been used to support the view that AIDS is the "penalty of their error which was due." What is fascinating about this kind of application is that it is totally at odds with what, I believe, Paul was really saying. IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF ROMANS CHAPTER ONE YOU MUST READ ROMANS CHAPTERS ONE THROUGH THREE. The outline is as follows:

I. The Gospel is for EVERYONE, Jews and Gentiles. (1:16)

II. Why? Because God's wrath is against ALL unrighteousness. (verse 18).

II. The Gentiles need the Gospel. (1:28-32) The examples of their "uncleanness" include idolatry and homosexual acts which are either connected to or resulting from idolatry.

III. But the Jews are just as unrighteous as the Gentiles. (2:3)

IV. "All have sinned" and are "justified (made right with God) FREELY by God's grace (unearned love) through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ." (3:23-24)

While Paul is certainly not favorable toward the homosexual acts that he is writing about it is interesting to note that Paul classifies them "unclean" which is not necessarily a "moral" precept. (According to the Holiness Code lobsters and shrimp are "unclean" also.) He may be pointing out that though the Jews are different than the Gentiles in that they are ritually "clean" (according to the Old Covenant) they are still just as much in need of the grace of the New Covenant.

Let's look at some of the verses in this section:

Verse 27b "And receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due." Is Paul here saying that those who committed homosexual acts were punished in some physical way...as in venereal disease? Or could "uncleanness," being cut off from the Old Hebrew Covenant, be the penalty of the Gentile's error?

28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to adebased mind, to do those things which are not fitting..." People often take this to mean one of the following things:

* Since homosexuals didn't retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind.
* Since the Gentiles were idolatrous God gave them over to a debased mind of homosexuality. However, I believe that Paul was saying the following:
* "Since the Gentiles did not retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a debased mind. The debased mind is NOT homosexuality but a mind that is centered on unrighteousness, hence the listing of what the Gentile mind is full of in verse 29.
* 29-32 This list of "unrighteousness" is being applied to all Gentiles, not Gentiles that commit homosexual sex acts. It is the Gentiles "who are worthy of death." These verses are really just an exposition of verse 18.
* 26-27 Another interesting point to consider is that people often use verses 26-27 to prove that Paul used an argument from "nature" to prove that homosexual activity was wrong. However that kind of usage of the word "nature" is highly unlikely as Paul usually uses the word "nature" or "natural" to mean not what "Mother Nature" does but instead he means "the previously accepted common usage". Nature is not a great teacher about ethics and humans are nowhere called in scripture to emulate it. What is more, homosexual activity DOES go on in the animal world.

It must be remembered also that Paul was referring to homosexual ACTS, not homosexuals. AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACTS PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT... NO ONE KNOWS THE BACKGROUND... We must ask ourselves "what type of homosexual acts was Paul talking about?" Was he talking exclusively about homosexual acts connected with idolatry? (Perhaps that was the only kind of homosexual activity he was familiar with.) Was he talking about pederasty? Was he talking about homosexual acts committed with slaves? Was he talking about people of heterosexual orientation committing homosexual acts? Just exactly what type of homosexual acts was he concerned with? Do people have the right to just ASSUME that these verses were a blanket condemnation of homosexual sex in every context?

In my personal opinion Paul was referring to same sex sexual acts committed in idolatrous worship by people he regarded as heterosexual. Even the most conservative theologian can only give their opinion as to what type of same sex acts Paul was referring to. No one can state that God clearly condemns all homosexuality activity based upon these verses. It is just too vague.

As for me, based on the context of Paul's writing in Romans chapters 1-3 I choose to believe that God's New Covenant of grace embraces those who believe in Jesus; being a Jew doesn't make you better than a Gentile; being a heterosexual doesn't make you any better than a homosexual. Romans chapters one through three strike at the very heart of self-righteous pride. It is amazing that some Christians continue to lord their own sense of righteousness over gays and lesbians as if their heterosexual sex acts make them somehow better, or less in need of grace. We are all in need of grace and we ALL have that grace in Jesus Christ.

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Kingskid1611
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Sodom and Gommarah

The punishment for this lifestyle if the warning are not heeded. Although I love the individual and pray for them they cannot bring the sin into a new lifestyle with Christ. A new creature in Christ means the past sins are to be put away and never revisited. I know several people that struggle with this and satan tries to defeat them but through prayer they will be vict rious. I agree it can became addictive like any sin you have done for awhile it may take some time to retrain the flesh. Dont give up with Gods help all things are possible.

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pookaloo2005
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amen!!!

i know of a woman who was a lesbian. once God saved her, He set her free but the enemy would try to tempt her..i.e. old girlfriends would call her, she would get invitations to parties, an attractive woman would walk past her..etc.. she tells me that if she did not keep her mind on God's word and spend time in prayer... it would be impossible for her to resist,,,, her favorite verse James 4:7 (KJV) - Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

MatthewJames
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Born Gay???

I lean more to the possibility that some are born homosexuals and that it boils down to CHOICE. (I would guess that this group is a very small percentage of the practicing homosexual/ bisexuals). My scriptural support for this is Matthew 19, 12.

“For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”

If we fell in sin and became corruptible biological machines and some are born eunuchs (a biological abnormality), then I suggest that it is possible that some are born homosexuals (clearly a biological abnormality).

I do not condone homosexual behavior nor do I think it is Christian. Most important, I believe the most appalling behavior is the public acceptance and approval of this behavior and worse, the public displays that corrupt others…. I personally believe that most homosexual behavior is demonic influence and is fortified through the public condoning what essentially amounts to the advertising of it as socially acceptable and appropriate lifestyle(as seen on TV).

I don’t know what I would say to someone if I were a pastor. I only put this out there in this forum for discussion.

I would also like to add that I have a friend who addmitted recently to me that he had a homosexual encounter in college. I was shocked because I have known him for about 15 years and never once would I have guessed this. His interest in the opposite sex was clear to me. He is confused, has had a rough time in many ways and just looking for someone to love him. I know its the public acceptance of this lifestyle and behavior that made this type of thing even a possibility for him. That is why I tend to believe that the bigger sin is in publically condoning it which, in turn, corrupts the minds of others.

CounselingWithX
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Pastor

One pastor's view: http://www.jesusmcc.org/resource/rev_james.html

Danamarie71
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I don't understand why there

I don't understand why there is any debate on this matter. Either you believe God's Word to be true, or you don't. If you base your faith in Christ on what the Scripture says, then the Scriptures should be your standard of truth for all things. The Bible is clear on God's stance regarding all sin, including homosexuality. If you want a verse to answer the question to this article, I believe this one fits: 1 John 3:6 (New International Version, ©2011)
6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Take up the argument with His Word, not mine.

Brian from Oz's picture
Brian from Oz
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Application

Danamarie
How would you relate that passage in practical terms to a young believer who has not yet attained much self self-control?

The Apostle John states earlier in this letter that we deceive ourselves if we say we have no sin (1John 1:8), so to quote 1John 3:6 without explaining it doesn't help.

However if we go on to 1 John 1:9, we begin the process of explanation and self-control. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

'He' is of course our God and heavenly Father, and our Father will forgive us, his children, our sins 'if we confess them'; which is pretty much what I suggested in my comment above regarding taking the addiction (sin) to the Father in faithful and persistent prayer.

The Father is faithful to the sacrifice of his Son and justified because of that sacrifice to both forgive and to cleanse, and by utilising this promise we (believers) display faith by doing what he says.

It is while we stand cleansed of sin that your verse takes effect.

There are other wonderful spiritual truths that come into play as we grow in such knowledge.

Danamarie71
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Brianhuggett....I found some

Brianhuggett....I found some other passages that you can share with "a young believer who has not yet attained much self-control". Again I would say that the answer to the question "Can you be gay and a Christian" is found in the truth of God's Word.

Hebrews 12
1 Peter 4:1-11
1 Peter 2, 3
1 John 1:5
Jude 1
Galatians 5:13-26
Galatians 6:1-10
Ephesians 4
Ephesians 5:1-17
Colossians 1:21-23
Colossians 3:1-14
1 Thessalonians 4:1-8
1 Timothy 1:3-14
2 Timothy 2:19
Titus 2:11
Titus 3:1-9
Hebrews 2:1-4
Hebrews 3:12-15
Hebrews 4:12-16
Hebrews 6:1-16
Hebrews 10
Galatians 5:13-26
Galatians 6:1-7
2 Corinthians 7:8
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
2 Corinthians 5:17
2 Corinthians 4
2 Corinthians 2:5-10
1 Corinthians 6:12-20
1 Corinthians 5: 9-11
Romans 13:11-14
Romans 12
Romans 8
Romans 6
Romans 5:1-11
Romans 1:18-28

I also stand on Galatians 1:10 to explain my position for my response : " Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. "

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Danamarie I don't think we

Danamarie

I don't think we disagree.

Your original verse on its own would have been of little use to new or carnal Christian, but you have put a series of verses that amount to a serious Bible study and if persisted with would go a long way to enlighten the soul.

I think we should change "Can you be gay and a Christian" to "Can one continue to be gay and a Christian".
I think not..

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Kingskid1611
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Kick em while there down.

I served time in the military and it would have been sad if when my fellow solider got hurt we were to just shoot them instead of trying to help them. That is what many christians are doing to each other. I dont condone sin but we all have come short. It is better to help our fellow man when they stumble then to shoot them to hell as qucik as we can. I know that habits are hard to break for new christians, Old lifestyle choices hard to overcome and only with the help and grace of God can it be accomplished. Are we not his hands and feet on this earth? Each day is a new day with new challenges and although I am by no means perfect I know I have a loving father who loves me wherever I am. I have been down that road to prison also and it was "christans" that said I had no business in thier church. I have been stabbed by more so called christians that I sometimes wondered what was the love of Christ all about. Did only Christ love? Don't cut em down or kick them but be willing to pray for them and lift them back up.

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Graftedgentile
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Gay and OPENLY Christian

"Gay and OPENLY Christian" should have been the real title of this report. While it is possible to sin as a Christian, it is impossible to stay in that sin without the conviction of Gods Holy Spirit . 2Cor 5:17 . It is the Holy Spirit that has given the NEW BIRTH from above. ALL thing's are new . This "camp" has a few different element's to it. 1; those that practice this sin are an abomination in Gods eyes. 2; To condone that sin as being okay, much less "Christian" is where the problem for the Body of Christ really begins to attack, no less attempt to destroy that very Body . And this Brother's and sister's we cannot stand by and watch and do nothing, or say nothing. The "director's of these event's carry a way bigger responsibility in this matter than do the young people being taught that it is okay to continue to sin in the face of an all mighty GOD. Only God can judge a mans heart, but we as Christ's own have a duty to call sin sin, and a duty to proclaim His only way, truth and life. These camp counselor's/director's are of their father the devil who comes to kill, steal and destroy. Jesus the Messiah came that we might have life and have that life more abundant. I feel no need to list Gods Word anymore than has already been listed above, and want to say that we all can fall into gross , Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Thank you Danamarie71 for your steadfast commitment to the Word of God.

Danamarie71
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Thank you for the

Thank you for the encouragement grafted!

CounselingWithX
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/gay-obsession-has-margina_b_777690.html

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Graftedgentile
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Back to a yolk of bondage?

In 2006 Boteach hosted the television series Shalom in the Home. The series, which ran for two seasons on the TLC network, was a reality show in which Boteach counseled families and gave advice about relationships. Boteach also hosted a weekly radio show on WABC called The Shmuley Show, and has made numerous guest appearances on the Oprah Winfrey Show and other television programs. He writes two syndicated columns, and is a frequent op-ed contributor to the Wall Street Journal and other newspapers. He speaks extensively in the United States and other countries.

Boteach has espoused many views that have made him unpopular with his Orthodox compatriots. He has espoused an accepting view of homosexuality: "Homosexuality is akin to the prohibition against lighting fire on the Sabbath or eating bread during Passover; there is nothing immoral about it, but it violates the divine will... I am in favor of gay civil unions rather than marriage," he wrote in an op-ed column in the Wall Street Journal His books often openly discuss sex and sexual practices, to the chagrin of many in the Orthodox community. According to an article in The Slate, the descriptions of intercourse in his book Kosher Sex were one of the reasons he was forced to leave his north London synagogue.

In 2008 he debated with Messianic Jewish leader Michael L. Brown on whether belief in Jesus is compatible with Judaism. Boteach said his objective was to return to the fold Jews who had converted to Christianity, but the debate raised the ire of many British Jewish leaders. Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet, a leading British orthodox rabbi, said Boteach's attempts to reach out to Messianic Jews were "self-delusional. Indeed, I question whether Rabbi Boteach has brought even one Jew involved in Christianity back to their roots through his debates, and suggest that it is little more than image and soundbite. I would urge the community to avoid any such debates."

Boteach is known for his flamboyance and self-promotion. In a comment he later described as only having been sarcastic, he was reported as saying "God gave 10 commandments at Sinai, and the 11th commandment, which they expunged but which has come down orally, is 'Thou shalt do anything for publicity and recognition'."
In 2010 he attended the Chabad convention of Shlichim. Boteach wrote that he felt "like being reborn. Like coming home and having a central riddle of one’s life make sense again."

Danamarie71
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Kingskid, by showing a

Kingskid, by showing a struggling believer what God's Word has to say about our choices, we are in fact doing a loving thing. Have you ever heard the saying "God loves you where you are, and he loves you too much to leave you that way". Shame on someone who won't accept you because of where you have been; but if you continue on in the rebellion of the sin you were in, then Scripture speaks of what believers are to do. Look at your life through God's eyes, and use Scripture as your guideline. Upholding the truth of God's Word does not translate to "cutting people down" or "kicking them while they are down".... it does however, "turn a sinner from the error of their ways" and helps them to live in the manner God called us to live. When Jesus came upon a crowd that was going to stone a woman who was caught in the sin of adultery, he said that whoever was without sin could cast the first stone. He then told the woman that her accusers were gone, and neither did He condemn her. He THEN told her to GO AND LEAVE HER LIFE OF SIN. We must be careful to take in the WHOLE counsel of God...not just the WARM AND FUZZY parts.

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WARM AND FUZZY

We are two in agreement!! I contend that the falling away we are witnessing is due to the willful disregard of Gods Word. Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. How can we lead anyone if we ourselves are blind? Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? Eph 4:17-21

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agreed

Stand firm on God's word... the warm and fuzzy is satan watering down God's standards and truth... that's the problem now, people think they are too good to go to hell. i thank God so much for His grace and mercy.. because i know that if Jesus had returned or if i would have died in my backslidden state, i would have been left behind or went to hell. people forget God is a HOLY GOD.

Danamarie71
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amen pook

amen pook

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Kingskid1611
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Agreed

I too take a very hard stand on sin and the willful disregard of Gods word. I agree that knowledge of what sin is, that would be the reason many fall away. Also many stay away because instead of praying for and showing that brother back to Christ, through Gods word. We choose to condemn rather than uphold. Bindness is in part due to lack of knowledge and in part due to lack of forgiveness or love.

MatthewJames
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Judge Not

Judge not lest ye be judged. I am not on a gay pride campaign, I would just like to point out that if we are called to become more like Jesus, then perhaps we should too show mercy. I dont think Jesus went around calling Mary Magdeline a thilthy whore. He offered her SALVATION -he did not judge her and say- until you are sanctified I dont want to have anything to do with you... you thilthy sinnng slut! NO, he didnt- that would not have helped her.
The bible is the authority for us to judge. We know homosexuality is a sin but chastising these people for their sinful ways will not help win anyone for Christ (or make it very unlikely). If people can be born without legs, then they can be born gay. If people can be born midgets, then they can be born gay. If children can be born into this world of sin and die an agonizing death from cancer, then they can be born gay. People, if they are indeed born gay (and I am not claiming to know this as fact), they should choose to live a holy life and fulfill Gods plan for their lives -this cannot happen if they reject Christ and live in sin. This is a choice: choose God or choose the world. My concern is that this hard-line chastisement for sinners actually works against some core values and reflects in contradiction to the real message -SALVATION. We are all hypocrites if we think any differently -WE ARE ALL SINNERS!!!

saint.lunatic
Rap-Con Supporter250+ posts
Joined: 12/22/2010
Posts: 346

I

don't believe people are born gay it is a choice and a demonic spirit behind it all one can do is pray for these people!

CounselingWithX
50+ posts
Joined: 03/28/2011
Posts: 65

Read closer!

I'd like to know how old most of you are, I'm sure age 40+...

First of all you cannot just read the Bible at face value! I remind you; even when we believe the scriptures are "without error," it's a risk to think our understanding is without error. Be careful who you condemn. If you want to find out what the Bible REALLY says about homosexuality, I suggest you check out the SoulForce website:

http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

YES! You CAN be gay and a christian. There are seven passages about homosexual behavior in the Bible, all of which are debatable as to their meaning for us today! There are thousands of references in the Bible that call us, as Jesus commands, to love our neighbor, to work for peace and reconciliation among all people, and to leave judgment to God. Shame on any of you for suggesting otherwise.

Harbinger
100+ posts
Joined: 08/04/2010
Posts: 122

when Christ said "love your neighbor" I don't think it means what you are making it out to be. There is a difference between a Christian love and a lustful love. Yes Messiah died for white black, straight or Gay. All sin is sin.. I am a sinner no more or less than anyone else on this board or around the world. The only sin that is unforgivable is to deny the Son.

Since there is this argument of the interpretation of the Text lets ignore what the words speak because that is an argument that could go on forever based on what I read when I read the Word and what you read when you read the same verse. I am sure that if you have any basis of study in the Word and society would agree with me, regardless of sexual orientation, that the Word has been used, misused, and abused to forward someones agenda. The site that you reference state:

Only six or seven of the Bible's one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way -- and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it's understood today.

Ecclesiastes states over and over again "there is nothing new under the sun". God does not change. He is the same today as he was when he created Adam and will be when those that have accepted the redeeming blood enter into eternity and beyond.

The biological function of sex has not changed since He designed our anatomy to permit reproduction around his eternal Wisdom, seeing the end from the beginning. I am sure that you would call it a "bashing" reference if I referred to the story when Lot made the attempt to protect the messengers of The Lord and demanded that they be brought out so that they could have sex with them. If I wanted, I could even relate a heterosexual example of the misuse of sex by relating to the story of Lot and how he got drunk and fathered children by this daughters.

So, if we put down our Bibles what do we have to observe. We see His creation. Designed in perfect order. Just as He invisioned it. So, throughout all of creation throughout time, how does the machine continue? A female creation and a male creation contribute their biological materials and life is begun. Dogs, cats, elephants, frogs, and yes humans. Men relating with men do not result in a similar result. Neither do women relating with women. Not in dogs, cats, elephants, frogs, or humans. If this is the way the Father created it, can it not be understood that it is the way it was intended to be.

I can take my car keys, I can set them on a piece of paper and they are a paperweight. I can use it to open a package. I can use the pointed end to dig ear wax out of my ears. There are probably some who would use such a thing for sexual gratification like anything else in creation. HOWEVER, they are car keys. What I do with them does not change their nature or what they are. They are designed for the purpose of unlocking my car and starting its engine.

When you put a puzzle together, it has a certain what that it MUST go to be correct. There are pieces that almost fit together. You could even shave the pieces down until the pieces fit the way you want it. You may have used all of the pieces. But if they are not used and placed where they belong while all the pieces may be included there are going to be holes where you had to modify the pieces and the picture at best will be marred if not completely unrecognizable.

If you want to rework the Word to suit your beliefs it can be done and has been done time and time again. You can ignore the references from Paul who said that because of man's sinfulness and hard heartedness he gave them over to lust after their own kind. But look at the symphony that is HIS creation. There is an inherent functionality to everything that He has made and He does all things well. It is a beautiful masterpiece.. It is HIS masterpiece.

Now, lets just assume that He didn't get it right. Or, even if we accept he is NOT FALLIBLE as I do believe and that he just accepted that boys and girls can.... love (for lack of a more appropriate term)... whomever they please lets look again at the creation. Let's say that being homosexual was not only acceptable but preferable in society. Lets take another step forward and postulate that God finds this kind of non-functional creation good and pleasing and doesn't do what He did unto Soddom and wipe the whole thing off the map. Let us say that all of an entire... lets say... Rhode Island.. decides that they all want to mate with their same sex. Procreation will stop in its tracks. Whatever infants exist at the time that the state decides to change the cultural norm will be raised in this cultural norm and will grow up in like manner OR lets argue that the children are either born gay or they elect or are forced to leave the state to keep it pure. How many years do you believe it would take before the entire state would be wiped out. By attrition the state would cease to be.

Now, you can not tell me that this can not happen because it is happening in Europe now. Not because of homosexuality but simply because people find children inconvenient. As a result the populations of nations in Europe are dieing off.

2Ti 3:2 KJV - For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 KJV - Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 KJV - Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 KJV - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Do you believe that Father God would establish and bless a behavior that would, in time, by attrition destroy his creation and His people that He loved enough that He wanted that none would be lost but all would come to redemption through Christ? If you challenge the meaning of the Word, look at the function of our world. Let us not even get into the matter of the Transgendered that apparently believe that He messed up by creating them in whatever gender they found themselves in to the point when they must "modify" their bodies to assume the roles that they feel is a better fit. My Father makes no mistakes, does yours?

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In closing, by no means am I judging you or of your friends, associates, or those with similar persuasion. I am persuaded that the lifestyle that you pursue is not the lifestyle that God intended. Not here on the basis of any single word in the Holy Bible but simply by the example of what you see and how biology exists in the world around us. I have done some wretched things in my life that I am by no means casting a stone in your direction or any that might be of similar belief. I am 30 years old but age has nothing to do with it. Society has mutated and mutilated what is socially right and wrong where people don't know their butts from their elbows any more.

I love you for the person that you are but I disagree with your beliefs that going against the nature of creation and of your own personal biological function is blessed of God. God bless you and may you seek His face.

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