God's WRATH on the United Staes


We will now experience the wrath of God.

And when I think that God His son not sparing, sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in. On that Cross, my burden gladly bearing, He bled and died to take away my sin.

When Christ shall come, with shouts of acclamation, and take me home, what joy shall fill my heart. Then I shall bow, in humble adoration, and there proclaim, "My God, How Great Thou art!"

We are deceiving ourselves if we think that God will not pour out His Holy Wrath on our nation for the immorality that has engulfed us. As MacArthur points out, it is inconceivable that a major party of our political system, the Democratic Party, has adopted a platform that includes and encourages homosexuality, abortion, same-sex marriages, fornication (government-issued condoms), and a blatant disrespect for God.

I am grateful for fellow watchmen (including my sisters) who can correct me with the "washing of the Word." (that pertains to wives, but it works for me!

I pray that persons, and I know a few who wag their heads at my work, who associated with immorality just to favor unions, or color, or whatever else is more important than the Kingdom of God, that they would repent and ask Christ Jesus to be the Lord of their lives.

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The Romans 1 Plumbline

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our responsibility

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour

I Timothy 2:1-3

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Amen!

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Wrath vs. Judgement

Please don't mix up the two. Judgement is for His people to bring them into correction - better put, the absence of His blessings. Wrath is for the wicked. If, and I believe it is, America is under judgement, it's the Church's fault. "If MY people..."

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And He will say, "I never knew you."

If I voted with no consideration of the Kingdom of God (which is where we conclude that He is "Lord") the wrath would indeed apply!

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Iron sharpens Iron. Is this your opinion? If so, I short you to correct with the Word of God. It is opinions that do little.

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Proverbs 6:16 These six

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

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Our challenge will be in this new world order will be to define truth, as only found in God's word. Scripture is a means of correction, for doctrine, and reproof. That scripture also mentions a "proud look." did I not ask for distinction between "wrath" and "judgement?" Then teach by GOD's Word. 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

If we cannot stay on subject and turn to God's Word for help, how are we different than anyone else? 2 Timothy 3:5 at the end of Paul's list, he writes, "holding to a form of [b]godliness, (or "religion") although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these."

Now I choose to believe since you quoted the abomination passage in Proverbs 6, that you could dig deeper and substantiate your correction with scripture.

If you feel it is discord, that is painful, but equally painful is how far the church has gotten away from the authority of scripture. I want you to reply so that there is no enmity between us.

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Btw I hate autocorrect

I typed "exhort" and it wrote "short." also, how can you bold?

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extort

but if you are going to demand we always use scripture to back every opinion we have please do likewise for us. If you believe we are incorrect, cite in scripture why. Correct in love and admonish. Debating can turn heated fast therefore we have moderators to well moderate. Please understand we do not demand of one another altho we may ask how someone arrived at their opinions or views but when we do ask it is because we truely are wanting to know and understand. If we cant justify our views it may lead us sometimes to re-evaluate where or why we had that opinion or view. This is good and healthy amongst the brethren.
We forget sometimes that those who are new dont know how we think, our scriptural knowledge, etc.
I, personally, do not begin to claim to know all of God's word perfectly. I am by no means a Bible scholar, have never attended seminary and many of our watchmen havent either. We have studied God's word on our own acting as Bereans. I am welcoming of correction as long as it is not metted out in a confrontational manner but in love, meekness and compassion.
I can tell you that I sincerely appreciate a well educated mind who has perhaps gleaned knowledge we can grow from. :)
hey Tracy, I wonder how MM and GG would get along? Peas and carrots I'd say. Where IS GG. Anyone heard from him? Oh sorry MM that is Grafted Gentile.

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This is the pea. (of the carrot)

I certainly want to be corrected with scripture, and fair enough on the posting with scripture. I really work at doing that, especially in my comments.

I hope you can understand this, but as former church pastor in a very liberal denomination, we constantly had to fight the lies and laziness, lies from other liberal ministers and laziness from the members of the congregation to (1) have no drive for sharing to the lost (2) be focused merely on themselves and finally (3) have no regard for gaining truth from personal study. Yes, I am talking about those who considered themselves, "believers." What worked to my own redemption, was that I was chief sinner, who got lazy himself, tired of the fight. It was however, when came to know Jesus, the Lord of my life. (Romans 6:5-8; Hebrews 12:14-15; Deuteronomy 29:15-20ff) I must say, that compromise leads to rebelliousness and after three years of penitence, God miraculously spoke to me and told me that I He chose me, anew. That's when I became a watchman.

Before I left that denomination, I got involved in leadership with a group that one day would become a seeker church in the US. That pastor was just starting out and was in the same denomination.

I later left that denomination and went to, what I thought, was a scriptural faith group. (In fact, in mid-1890's, they started the "non-denominational movement.") But guess what, same 3 issues as the liberal church! Imagine my disappointment. The church was afraid to grow because of the "kind of people" that were joining the movement. Their Bible college was even compromising their approach to post-moderns by leading them to explore Borg's Jesus Seminar, a major cult movement in the late twentieth century.

I then became involved in voluntary leadership in that once brand-new but now burgeoning Mega Seeker Church. I brought to that pastoral friend (the head pastor) the same plan of biblical discipleship that beautifully interlaced so that it didn't detract from the services of worship. Uh oh, the big 3 hit again! This church's focus was on the pulpit ministry and undisciplined community groups. (Matthew 28:19-20 is a charge to all believers, not just to share the gospel, but to make disciples)

There are more than watchman reading this site, and commenting. I was shocked at the number of people who had no regard for the platform of the Democrats, who even in their convention, voted out God three times. (Like you could DO that!) At this time, as I agree with Rick Willes of www.Trunews.com, that the watchman days have ended, but now we need to increase with the gospel. Things are now going to happen very quickly.

Anyone who is reading this that does not know Jesus Christ as Lord, should know that when the family of God disagrees, do work it through, and the scripture guides us. Thank you, my sister, for her patience and forebearence.

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AH

lol! no harm no foul, brother Pea! ;P
Love to you and blessings upon your heart.

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MM...why so attacking,

MM...why so attacking, brother? Lost & Found is a Moderator, also, deserving a more respectful tone (as are the rest...deserving). You're being very demanding in the way people respond to you, too. Why? Passion is fine but you're sounding very angry, pushing buttons.

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Our place in God's plan, right now, Tracy, is very important. Our church has become biblically soft, I know that is a broad stroke, and my confronting this is indeed most unpopular. I appreciate your question and your candor, thank you. But what I am asking is not out of line, albeit abrupt, but the only way people will respond is to hear a sense of urgency.

If a building is on fire, one doesn't say, "Pardon me, have you considered the likelihood of dying if you linger here." we just passed an election where a truly ungodly platform seemed to be ignored by many. In my seminary days, I knew missionaries to Russia who smuggled Bibles behind the iron curtain. We may soon be there in a few years, so we'd better know how to comprehend the meat of the word, for ourselves, not what the preachers just tell us

What we want to happen, and I hope the majority opinion is right, that we will be taken up before that could possibly happen. When you weigh what is happening globally, and the fact that we are not far behind, fire is bulding.

It is hard to write and not to hear my voice, and I appreciate your thoughts on respecting the moderator, but I hope that there would be consideration of firmly planting discussions in God's precious Word. This is my ministry, to work against "cultural Christianity" versus complete trust in Jesus Christ for all aspects of our lives.

If someone is having difficulty answering my question, I will pull a word study together an answer it, or help someone understand how to do that. Does that make sense?

Could you shed some light on the scriptural backing for "wrath" as distiquished from judgement?

Thanks Tracy for you question.

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Dear ones, let us pay attention to ...

Righty "dividing the word of truth" 2 Timothy 2:14-15. Do not misunderstand me, please.

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1Thess.8-11 8But let us, who

1Thess.8-11
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

I appreciate you're coming from a sense of urgency, MM, and "hear" what you're saying. But you have to understand the nature of this site. This is a place for Watchmen to gather. The thing we share is our sense of urgency about the state of the world and the impending time of the tribulation and Jesus' return. People just express it in different tones, but we feel just as strongly about it as you. A lot of the people you're talking to have been on this site, for the very reason you are expressing, for several years. Urgency and concern for the Church, for the wolves who have come in spreading apostasy/false lies, and for those who have fallen asleep. And, also outside of the Church, a great sense of urgency for the lost. All I'm saying is it might take you a little time to discern each person's position; and we certainly quote Scripture, but we also talk about it and other things. That's the way we fellowship.

That's not saying that everyone who is in here is as I described, of course. There have been a few that are way off base (only one that I can remember who was pro-homosexuality and believe me, Scripture was flying on this site as we talked to him), and a few that were having difficulty in their walk. But for the very large majority, you're dealing with people who feel the sense of urgency you describe. I've known many of these people for years and consider them dear brothers/sisters. Hope this helps, MM.

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Actually, I've been looking

Actually, I've been looking into this further in Scripture, trying to better understand the differences between God's judgment and wrath, myself; especially since they are so close in nature. From my reading, judgment can/does go into both categories, "judgment" and "wrath." But the distinguishing difference is the nature of God's wrath. Revelation speaks of God's cup of wrath being poured out onto the world. Wrath seems to speak of a final judgment against sin, God's wrath over sin. The two examples we are given in Scripture, prior to Revelation's cup of wrath, are the flood in Noah's time and the destruction of Sodom. Both have these in common: the people were consumed with sin/wickedness, and they are both mini-pictures of God's wrath to come. And in both, He brought His people out. When God's cup of wrath is poured over the world, only those covered with Jesus' covering will be brought out of it. Because of the nature of righteousness, only obtained through Jesus. So, from this, I see that there is a difference between God's judgment and God's wrath, in that the later is being held back for a future time. However, we can still experience God's judgment even as His people. David is a good example of this; Moses, too.

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wrath

I believe the bowls are God's wrath that are poured out and the judgements come with them. As the nations face His fierce burning anger they receive their judgements as well. Wrath is not always with judgement but it can work with it. :) love to ya Tracy!

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I was thinking the same,

I was thinking the same, Sister. MM, you and GG are birds of a feather! You would be friends, I think. Oh, and by the way, I'm your sister, not brother ;) . Hard to tell sometimes this way, I know!

I miss GG and have wondered the same, Sister...where he is.

On the cup of wrath versus bowls, Sister, I wasn't referring to the bowls. This will explain it better than me:

"In Matthew 26:42 we read: "O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done." And John 18:11, "The cup that my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?" These were the words which He spoke while in the Garden of Gethsemane hours before the cross. There in the Garden of Gethsemane He saw a cup that the Father had extended before Him, a cup that He must drink.

What was in that cup? In general, the idea is very clear. A cup is a vessel filled with liquid which one drinks. This was the cup given to Him of the Father. We read in Psalm 75:8, "For in the hand of the LORD there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them." We may say that the cup held before Jesus was the full measure of the suffering God had set out as the way of payment, or atonement, for the sins of His people. These sufferings had been assigned to Jesus, sufferings which would culminate in the cross.

The Bible makes plain that the cross was not simply an act of injustice on the part of men. It was not simply an example of what awaits men if they do not repent. But the cross was substitutionary suffering. Jesus Christ suffered in the place of the people given to Him of His Father. And He suffered what they deserved. It was God's Son in our flesh, standing in the place of God's elect out of the earth, standing in the place of what they deserved as sinners who had broken His law. The cup that the Father presented to His Son was filled with the lava of God's holy wrath against our sins, the measure of suffering owed to us who have sinned against the God of heaven. And to receive that cup meant for Christ that He must assume our place before God's justice, and answer in His own body upon the cross by enduring the burning and holy vengeance of the wrath of God owed against our sins. Christ knew of this cup.

The Garden of Gethsemane was not the first time that He learned of its existence. He had said to His disciples in Matthew 20:22, "Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able." For this purpose Jesus came into the world. It was a sign to Him. But now, in Gethsemane, Jesus comes to the moment when He must actually drink that cup. The hour had come. The full horrors of sin and guilt are now presented to Him. He is under the shadow of the cross.

In many ways Gethsemane gives us a deep insight into the agonies that Christ is going to suffer upon the cross. While on the cross Jesus is going to speak seven times. Only one time did His words have direct reference to the personal agony that He carried as He bore the penalty for our sins. That was the fourth time, when He said: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" He gives there a direct inlet into the deepest agony of His soul. Gethsemane reveals the personal agony of Christ as He stands in our place and prays about the cup: "O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done."

We must understand that Jesus Christ was not hallucinating. He was not seized by a figment of His imagination. He was coming under the complete realization in His soul of what it would mean to stand before the bar of God's justice representing the multitude which no man can number, the elect of God from every nation, tongue, race, and age.

That cup that He must drink is further described in Revelation 14:9, 10: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb." It is the picture of the cup of God's wrath unmixed with mercy or pity, poured out upon Him. It was this cup which was presented to Christ, the cup all the elect would have to drink personally if Christ did not drink it in their place. A cup composed of all the elements which the righteousness and justice of God demanded as He beheld the sins of God's people. Those sins were imputed or reckoned or given over unto Christ, the Lamb of God, so that the cup that He must drink is the undiluted wrath of God against the sins of God's people, the cup which began to be filled in Adam, his original sin, and is still being filled with every sin you and I commit, filled with the sins of all of God's elect, the burning lava of God's holiness against their sins."

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WwwwwooowwwW

Oh, my. Beautiful

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I believe that word from I Thessalonians 5:14 best applies to what I purposed. For there are those, well meaning believers, who may support a man who is anti-Christ in all his ways, which is unruly in the household of faith. Mine is a warning, and it is in love and meekness, for I have said on other posts, that I have traveled that same way.

If you can restore a brother...

I love you brother. You "Pea" in Christ.

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It is discord when you

It is discord when you question the salvation of our brothers and sisters in here based on how they voted or whom they voted for. I don't see any scripture that says I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. In fact I see many scripture warning us to not even bear with those who preach a different doctrine or another Jesus as Paul says. (2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV; Galatians 1:6-7 KJV) All things should be done for the edifying of the body of Christ. That is my point. MM, there is no discord between us but I feel it is my job to stand up for my brother's and sister's on here. Since you are new, I have no way of telling what your intentions are, although, I believe they are good, but tone is a hard thing to express in type sometimes and you come across as belittling, and berating on here. I think we are all in agreement that the Church has failed, there are more wolves than shepherds in the church and there is a falling away happening before our very eyes. We all see it, feel it, and are deeply saddened and disturbed by it, but it was prophesied to come in the last days and that's truly what we are in. Again there are no hard feelings, in the future try starting a "forum topic" if you wish to reach the body of Christ about a topic that so deeply moves you. It's the second selection under the "submit new" tab. If you have any problems starting one feel free to ask questions.
p.s. the bold key is at the top left of the comment box.

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Meek is not weak, I submit this to you

I appreciate your role as moderator, but the scripture you provided seemed to be a judgement. I preach Jesus as Lord. (Luke 14:24-33) the doctrine of the new socialist democrat is so obviously evil by the standards, not of my opinion, but Romans 1:24-33. This was not just about Mitt Romney, the Mormon, but votes for greater immorality (marijuana, homosexual marriage, public funds for abortion, ect) and let alone voting for new Democrat Senators. God showed grace to us to slow the process of wrath with a still yet Republican House.

I was accused of not being "meek" therefore questioning my salvation. Rather than rile at that accusation, and I know you are in authority which I respect, but meekness is not timidity, but rather "Controlled Strength." our trouble today is biblical illiteracy, not just unable to recognize scripture but making statements of correction without acknowledging it. That is why I referred to "opinion" versus scripture. Not to judge, to edify and strengthen the true believer. (see the contrast and context of the "follower" of Jesus in John 6:66 and John 6:69)

Of meekness, A.W. Tozer once wrote, "the meek man is not a human mouse afflicted with a sense of his own inferiority. Rather he may be in his moral life as bold as a lion and as strong as Samson; but he has stopped being fooled about himself. He has accepted God's estimate of his own life. He knows he is as weak and helpless as God declared him to be, but paradoxically, he knows at the same time that he is in the sight of God of more importance than angels. In himself, nothing; in God, everything. That is his motto." 

For more teaching on this see, http://www.christianlibrary.org/authors/Grady_Scott/matt5-5.htm

I believe God is calling the believer to stand in the authority of God's Word, not simply chatting of the ills of our sin-wrecked world. I am convinced that we must be prepared to give an account of the hope within us. The bible has lots of stories of Christians confronting Christians, one quickly comes to mind is Paul vs "Cephus" in Galations 2:11 and following, because he was saying one thing but doing another. (clever that Paul used his Greek name bringing to light his hypocrisy with the "uncircumcised" Greeks!) Did Peter revile Paul for his correction? No! In fact he later equates Paul's teaching as actually being holy scripture! 2Peter 3:14-16

I have taken pains to convey this in love to you, and not withholding my respect for your leadership, but I am of the household of faith, but I encourage believers to stand strong, not on opinion, but on God's Holy Word, and for the Lordship of Jesus Christ, complete surrender, which is the only definition if saving faith.

I submit myself to your authority.

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Misspelled Galatians

Galatians 2:11, Paul was not timid in confronting Peter's compromise, referred to above.

I don't consider myself any where close to being like the apostle, however Philippians 4:9 says "The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you." (I do understand what Paul means by saying he is the chief among sinners, as I am, though I didn't kill the first Christian as the apostle did)

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Please forgive me if I have

Please forgive me if I have caused you offense. As I have said, it is hard to distinguish tone on here. In the past we have had posters who were not edifying to the body of Christ. They were argumentative to the point where it was disruptive, some down right heretical, and some who I don't think were really believers but just looking to argue and disrupt the site. There's a name in the online community for them but it escapes me at the moment. Again, you are a relatively new poster and while I understand and agree we should be studying to shew ourselves approved unto God, this is an open forum, not everyone post scriptures some just want to comment on the story, and that's ok too. Again, if you want a more serious discussion on scripture try posting something on the forum section. I meant no harm, nor disrespect by my scripture, it was more to get your attention. I am not above reproof and I know the scripture I used was overtly harsh, I apologize. Let's start over.

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I believe the word you are looking for

is TROLL.
That's what I've heard being used online.

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LOL, yes, that's it TROLL, I

LOL, yes, that's it TROLL, I wonder why it's called that? Thank you sister. :-)

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Starting over is good, was not wanting to be disruptive. Okay so, now I will need to change my name to the "P&C Troll!" ("Peas & Carrots") IoI. I cannot wait till Heaven, complete unity, focused on the Lamb, worshipping, serving in ways that utilize our talents. I am nearly 7' tall, so could we use the term giant instead of troll? My ancestors would appreciate that!

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Oh no, we weren't calling you

Oh no, we weren't calling you a troll. While I'm pretty sure you know that and are joking with us I just want to make sure you know. Sister was just telling me the name of people who get on sites for the sole purpose of disrupting it. Wow, 7' so we'll have no problem finding you in heaven. :-)

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IoI

I was joking, I have to laugh at my self, sometimes. I have to say, L & F, I really have this burden about the church, being ready for what could be coming soon. I will be careful how it comes across, but please pray for me. I am contemplating going into the church ministry again to seek ways to each the lost in the inner city, and to focus Christians who seem adrift to get anchored again in God's Word. I don't know if you read my posting about the purpose of God's Wrath, but there soon could be more deep hurt out there, leaving the opening for the doctrine of hope in Jesus, Only Master.

Love you brother

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No worries, I think we all

No worries, I think we all have a burden. I have been feeling it to lately, trust me. I briefly read over the wrath vs judgement but it was hard to follow with all the posts, it did spark me to go back and study wrath vs judgment in the bible though. I will pray for you. We need more watchman on the wall sounding the alarm.

I am a sister, but love you the same.

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